The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda!! [UPDATE]

cross-posted at coyotedbytes

The untimely death of Tim Russert, an event hailed far and wide as a tragedy not just for him but for NBC, for his family and for the nation, aroused in me an opposite reaction.

The outpouring of praise and adulation for the host of Sunday morning's Meet the Press, dumbfounded me.  If others were shocked by his death, I was equally shocked by the around the clock panegyric to his father, his son and his Catholicism-- his adulation of the Pope, his patriotism and his good guy persona.

The fact is Tim Russert, longtime head of NBC's Washington Bureau, was the quintessential non-reporter. And there was no journalist more implicated in disseminating the Bush administration's propaganda about Iraq.

More like a Brave New World version of a journalist, than the real deal, Russert was America's leading  exponent of entertainment  vs information. His  famous `gotcha' style--wherein each Sunday his  viewers waited for his punch, jab and  pounce on  that show's guest--came to homes every Sunday for more than a decade, but no one mentioned on the occasion of his death that show's journalistic contributions to  the public good. That he was good, no one doubted. But his work was not evaluated.

I suppose that is because after 4,000 deaths, and a totally discredited intervention that the American people have resoundingly rejected, no one wants to remember how he promoted the Iraq war. And no one wants to admit how his much vaunted journalistic integrity  went sailing out the window after he revealed without a quiver of distress at the Scooter Libby trial  he had cooperated with the FBI in revealing his source. Finally, there was no media personality on the public stage who was  closer  or more fawning  towards the Bush-Cheney White House than Tim Russert.  

President Bush's swift outpouring of sympathy at Russert' untimely death, if contrasted with his Katrina comments, were a marvel of timely consideration.

As a former news reporter for the Associated Press I remember when  reporters actually believed we had a responsibility to ensure "the people's right to know."  And I remember when they considered it part of their job description to remain objective. So when Walter Cronkite at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago said, "Bunch of thugs down there," referring to the Andy Frain ushers who were assaulting both the  protestors and the delegates, this remark in itself was newsworthy.   When Cronkite made that comment I was on the floor of the convention sending stories back to CNS of Los Angeles and striving to  emulate my heroes: I.F. Stone, Art Buchwald, Edward R. Murrow, Sander Vanocour, Oriana Fallaci, and Norman Mailer for "Armies of the Night" and "Miami and the Siege of Chicago."

Tim Russert, for me, is am embarrassment to the history of journalism in America. Despite having aided and abetted the Iraq war propaganda he not only never hosted a single Iraq war veteran, he condemned as unpatriotic the showing of our military dead on Nightline in 2004.

Russert, in my opinion, was a purveyor of political porn who promoted  sensation over substance. Change, growth and the ability to rethink an issue by American politicians was routinely  portrayed as dishonesty.  And God help the politician who had a long career in politics or a long public record. Russert excelled at researching every nuance and every change as if these were proof of malfeasance and dissembling. Unfortunately, he never turned this propensity on his friends in the Bush Administration.

Madeline Zane writes:

The biggest hit parade of Bush administration lies -- Cheney's claim that 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta met an Iraq official in Prague, Rice's claim that the smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud -- all happened across the desk from Tim Russert on Meet the Press. Those lies were that much more dangerous because they were broadcast, without being questioned, on a show with an inexplicable reputation for hard-headed journalism.

In fact, during the Scooter Libby trial, Cheney's former communications director testified that Meet the Press was their best forum for giving interviews because they were allowed to control their own message without being questioned.


http://www.unknownnews.org/080616a-Madel ineZane.html

The fact is the misinformation never stopped.

On the May 20 broadcast of NBC's Meet the Press, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA) suggested without challenge from host Tim Russert that the alleged plot by six men to carry out an armed attack on the Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey represents proof that if the United States withdraws forces from Iraq, terrorists "don't plan to stop in Baghdad. They are coming here as soon as they can get here." However, as Media Matters for America has documented, the assertion that terrorists will "com[e] here" following a U.S. troop withdrawal is widely challenged by experts.

http://mediamatters.org/items/2007052100 05

This is from Corrente:

In a way, Russert's deliberate distortion in Wednesday's debate made Hillary look better to most of us, and not only because of her blanket rejection of torture as some kind of acceptable post-9/11 American norm; when Russert sprang his trap, announcing that the scenario she'd just rejected had been offered up by her husband and our former President, Bill Clinton, her quick witted response - "He isn't the one standing here" - was her best moment of the evening.
So far, though, not many people seem to have realized that Russert's characterization of Clinton's Meet The Press comments, circa, Sept of 2006, was essentially a lie.

/could_we_get_two_things_straight_please bill_clinton_didnt_endorse_torture_and big_russs_lil_russ_is_a_lying_sack_of_sh it

And no  one ever  seemed to be bothered by Russert's hobnobbing with those he wrote about and interviewed.  In December 2003, Tim Russert partied along with William Safire at Donald Rumsfeld's `winter mixer' and then "On Sunday's Today" December 14, 2003, he spoke with NBC's Campbell Brown:

I actually had the opportunity to see the secretary of Defense last night, and they were in an extremely festive holiday mood beyond their normal demeanors...I saw the director of CIA, Tenet, and said, "You know, I had the strangest dream last night that Saddam Hussein was taken captive," which I actually had on--on Friday night. He looked at me in this poker face and said, "Happy holidays.

http://www.dailyhowler.com

One month later, in January, 2004, Sam Husseini, Communications Director, Institute for Public Accuracy, sent Russert a fax pointing out some egregious errors Russert had circulated  about weapons inspectors in Iraq. Russert never admitted receiving it. On the occasion of Russert's death, Husseini wrote:

The survivors of those killed in the U.S.'s war in Iraq since the 2003 invasion cannot simply blame Bush. Under the guise of "tough journalism" Russert and others disseminated lies and built the case for invasion even before Bush got to the White House.

In an article titled, "How Russert Helped Plant the Seeds for the Iraq War" Husseini included these salient points:

December 19, 1999: With Al Gore as guest, Tim Russert says on Meet the Press: "One year ago Saddam Hussein threw out all the inspectors who could find his chemical or nuclear capability." Russert asks Gore what he's going to do about this.

Soon afterward: Sam Husseini leaves a message on Russert's answering machine, and speaks to two of his assistants, telling them the inspectors were withdrawn by the UN at the request of the United States.

January 2, 2000: With Madeleine Albright as guest, Tim Russert repeats the error on Meet the Press: "One year ago, the inspectors were told, `Get out,' by Saddam Hussein." Russert asks Albright what she's going to do about this.

January 21, 2000: Sam Husseini writes a letter to Russert, again laying out the facts, and requests a correction.

January 22, 2000-March 19, 2003: Russert never corrects his error.

March 19, 2003-present: Hundreds of thousands of people die in Iraq War. Russert dies, not in Iraq War. Official Washington weeps copious tears for Russert and his Extraordinary Journalistic Standards. http://thismodernworld.com/4354

This lie about the inspectors echoed through much of the political-media system around the time Russert told it, and helped set the stage for the invasion after 9/11 -- and it was a predecessor of the lie that Bush has repeatedly stated since 2003 that he invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein did not allow the inspectors into Iraq.

Russert not only aided and abetted Bush and Co on Iraq, his errors and bias in other areas were legion. Rather than help his audience become better informed he kept them misinformed, often refusing to provide  the very information needed to understand the actions of our government. And no better example of this bias can be noted than that of his so-called reportage on the Clintons.

And this predates his behavior in the now infamous MSNBC debate on Oct. 30, 2007, about which the next day Taylor Marsh wrote:

There were 52 questions asked last night; 25 had to do with either Hillary or Bill Clinton, including very personal insinuations, with 22 of the 25 being abjectly hostile.
Tim Russert asked 26 questions; 14 were to Clinton, with 5 directly targeting her personally...

In contrast, Barack Obama got asked what he would do about air travel; whether there was life beyond earth; and the question on which all Americans' safety depends, What are you going to dress as on Halloween? When the air travel question drooled out of Russert's mouth I thought I'd accidentally hit the remote to the Travel channel. But Russert's softballs to Obama when compared to Clinton were nakedly obvious to anyone paying attention. When you couple Russert's penchant for his all boys pannels on "Meet the Press," there's only one conclusion to draw...

But one of the most telling moments was when Tim Russert held up a document and asked Clinton about National Archives documents:

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I'd like to follow up because, in terms of your experience as first lady, in order to give the American people an opportunity to make a judgment about your experience, would you allow the National Archives to release the documents about your communications with the president, the advice you gave, because, as you well know, President Clinton has asked the National Archives not to do anything until 2012?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, actually, Tim, the Archives is moving as rapidly as the Archives moves. There's about 20 million pieces of paper there and they are moving, and they are releasing as they do their process. And I am fully in favor of that. Now, all of the records, as far as I know, about what we did with health care, those are already available. Others are becoming available. And I think that, you know, the Archives will continue to move as rapidly as the circumstances and processes demand.

MR. RUSSERT: But there was a letter written by President Clinton specifically asking that any communication between you and the president not be made available to the public until 2012. Would you lift that ban? SEN. CLINTON: Well, that's not my decision to make. And I don't believe that any president or first lady has. But certainly we'll move as quickly as our circumstances and the processes of the National Archives permits.

If you saw Russert hold up that document you likely thought it came within the last year. Seeing Russert's  chubby red face all flushed with excitement, in fact, you might have even gotten the impression that the document he held had just come through in a faxmachine, specifically for the debate. Oh, how important the theatrics of the moment,especially when moderator turns into "Meet the Press" attack dog.

After spending time on the phone today with a source very familiar with archive procedures, the truth of the matter is quite different. The letter Russert held up was from 1994. It's also standard operating procedures for all presidents.

The document was from 1994!! The whole episode as based on a phony issue and Tim Russert led the smear. But it was great box office. People talked about it for days.

I am not going  to belabor Russert's well-known anti-Clinton bias, his gotcha-gambit-style replayed endlessly on Sunday morning's as if this were real journalism, and his responsibility for the Iraq War along with his uncritical and pandering to the  Bush Cheney Whitehouse.

What I am going to say is that when we assert that the mainstream media is a problem, Russert was a glaring example. He was not one of the `good guys' in both the way he created headlines and then conducted his witchunts for ratings. He was not accurate so many times they are beyond counting, and he was not an honest media broker. Russert way too often grandstanded for maximum audience impact regardless of where the truth might lie.

Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :

And I still hate Hillary!



Display:


Stay Classy (2.00 / 4)

nt


by libertyleft on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:22:30 PM EST

I think she is... (2.00 / 7)

She waited the appropriate amount of time to give her critique. Sorry, but I think linfar made some good points. While I feel terrible for Tim Russert's family (and I DEFINITELY don't think he "deserved" to pass away!), I was just never a fan of his type of "journalism". He was too much of a Bush apologist, just like most of the rest of the corporate media.

Again, my condolences to Russert's family. I'm sorry about him passing away. I just didn't like his brand of reporting.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think she is... (2.00 / 2)

You obviously didnt catch the last line.

See with smear diaries I always jump to the end, as that is the cowardly way to insert garbage.

How many trolls do this everytime,  list a bunch of facts and or concerns then drop the trash in the last line.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OK, so we don't like the last line... (2.00 / 4)

I agree with you on that. But still, does that discredit all the facts linfar made? Does that make her a "troll"? I think NOT.

Linfar's only presenting the facts. While Tim Russert may have been a good person, he was a lousy journalist. That's all.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, so we don't like the last line... (2.00 / 1)

I think it does, I have seen the same behaviour by countless trolls, and evertime it happens that troll is called out.

If you read the same article in the WashPo editorial section, and you read to the end, would you not also write off the article and author as BS?

Lin could have gotten away with just "bad taste" but all she defined her diary with the last line.

Also I have a hard time believing it his her.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mocking his tombstone? (1.33 / 3)

You sure this wouldn't go better with the gravedancing on H44?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:23:09 PM EST

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (1.90 / 10)

A diary like this was overdue.

Rec'd.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:26:04 PM EST

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (2.00 / 3)

Thanks Space. Yes. It was. I tried to wait until enough time had passed.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (2.00 / 2)

Enough time passed to say this in your last line:


Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :

   

And I still hate Hillary!

WHY WOULD you say that, you lose all credibility.
Did he deserve to die?


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Linfar, you jumped the shark big time (1.60 / 5)

How pathetic, you are simply and only attacking him based only on your OBSESSION WITH HILLARY CLINTON.

Thats it, you say your a journalist but are far from writing like one.

I love how you trolls save the troll lines for the very end:


Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :
 
  And I still hate Hillary!  


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:26:52 PM EST

Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time (2.00 / 3)

Linfar is not a troll.

This diary is extremely unfortunate, however.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time (1.50 / 2)

I know she isn't,  but what do you call this.

I feel very bad because just last week we were all chummy.

Who knows, from what I remember Hillaryis44 kicked her out,  maybe she used the same password on both sites and they are hijacking her name here.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:30:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time (2.00 / 5)

Oh dear, please in the future read the whole diary. I think you have picked out about 2 paragraphs. What was most unforgiveable about Russert's so called newswothtyness was the way he beat the drums for the Iraq War. for Years!!!


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time (1.66 / 3)

Linfar,

The naked contempt and vitriol in the last section of your diary, undermines the credibility of EVERYTHING else that comes before it.

You just couldn't leave out the last dig at the dead man, could you?


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 03:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Linfar, you jumped the shark big time (none / 0)

Linfar

As for drum beaters for the Iraq War... what about HRC?

This makes no sense as an anti Iraq war diary. It actually makes no sense as anti Russert diary. The only sense it makes here, on MYDD, is as a 'anti Hillary revenge diary'. For some reason Russert is the next Judas. I don't understand why this is important, here and now, and certainly think it is a waste of your talents.

You complain about Russert's 'gotcha' journalism. You're doing something worse. 'Gotcha' against a dead man.

You could have at least had the grace to write this diary when he was still alive


The Moose is Loose!
by duende on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 05:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Linfar - (2.00 / 1)

I've had this same conversation with my husband and several of our friends.  We all remembered his involvement in the Valerie Plame mess - not to mention his penchant for disseminating White House talking points.

Frankly though - I would have waited before exploring all this.  Reaction to his death has been bizarre.  People seem unusually reactionary.  For example: There were numerous "I Hate Russert" diaries sprinkled all over the internet the very day he died.  It was appalling.  Complete lack of respect for the mans family.  That the most of these seemed to be on progressive sites made me ashamed.

Those were then followed by a blizzard of canonization essays - the complete opposite.  Again - odd.  Diaries like yours, examining his work and asking people to discuss it are, I believe fair - but again - I don't think you're going to find too many people willing to explore such things at this juncture.  They're still in the reactionary phase - unwilling to do anything other than jump to extremes.

Calling you a troll, and the other appalling accusations being thrown your way is, in my opinion, way over the top - but then your most vociferous detractors usually only come here to stir the pot.  Pity.  This site has really begun to slip off the rails of late.  Too many people line up behind the agitators - all too willing to jump on the "Who's a troll?  You're a troll!" bandwagon.


by The Fat Lady Sings on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 06:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Any chance... (2.00 / 5)

you could stop spamming this diary?  Just as a joke doesn't get funnier because you repeat it over and over your point doesn't become more salient by repetition either.


by tonedevil on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:49:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any chance... (2.00 / 1)

Yes it does!
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
Yes it does!
by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:53:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Any chance... (1.00 / 1)

I was gonna ignore him for asking a dumb question, but of course it does.

Using her own words against her.

Theme Song for this diary:


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist (2.00 / 6)

<facepalm>

Linfar, you're entitled to your opinion, but I just do not agree with you.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:27:11 PM EST

Re: The Propagandist (2.00 / 3)

So you think the way Russert pushed the Iraq War was ok??


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist (2.00 / 2)

Yes, I think it was "okay."  I don't think it was good however.

The man had a long career and brought a new level of professionalism to political reporting.  He fucked up on Iraq, and pretty big too.

I forgive him.  The war easily would have happened without him, and his intentions were not evil.  He was mistaken.  I don't hate a man for a mistake, even a big one.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist (2.00 / 9)

I dont think Linfar is calling on anyone to hate T Russert.  

It does, however, behoove us, to remember his mistakes as well, and to not get carried away by a senseless desire to praise the dead.  T Russert made many many mistakes over the years (and this diary calls out some of them).  I remember the "Atta met with Iraqi intel" line on MTP...  T Russert will forever be associated with that line (or not challenging that line, rather) in my mind !!


If you follow history with a long enough arc, things always get better, and the truth always prevails...Gandhi
by SevenStrings on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist (2.00 / 2)

...a senseless desire to praise the dead.

Wow, the wakes and funerals I go to must be different than yours.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist (2.00 / 2)

I think singling out Russert for it is not fair. The entire media was eating out of Bush's hand in the run-up to the war. I'm sure Russert did some regretful things pre-invasion, but so did many others, and what he did pales in comparison to the blatant cheerleading in which so many other journalists engaged.

Moreover, it hardly cancels out a long and accomplished career in which he called out many politicians on their double-standards and flip-flops. (I always thought he was particularly good during that 2004 MPT Senate debate series, in which he cut through several of the vapid Bush clones the GOP fielded--successfully--that year.) Whatever happened with Iraq, I still thought Russert netted a huge plus for his career.

I understand that people may feel coverage of Russert's passing was overdone. But I still find a diary like this to be rather distasteful. It goes without saying that if you're a blogging Democrat, you don't hold the media in high esteem; it doesn't need to be pointed out to us.

Also, the last line is unfortunate and forces us to question the motivation.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 03:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist (none / 0)

It was about as "okay" as the way Hillary pushed the Iraq war.

They were both wrong. They both had a lapse in judgment.


by Lance Bryce on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 10:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

w.t.f. (1.85 / 7)

I thought you turned over a new leaf linfar.  Guess I was wrong.

I understand that he declared Hillary's campaign over after she lost the delegate battle, but does that give you the right to dance on his grave?  How the hell did you descend to such depths of hate and bitterness?


Ornithological Vaccinations and Aviary Heuristics
by OVAH on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:29:37 PM EST

Re: w.t.f. (2.00 / 6)

This has much less to do with Hillary than it does with Iraq. He pushed the war over and over and over with lies and propaganda.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: w.t.f. (none / 0)

So if he never said what he did about Hillary, would you be writing this today?  I'd venture to say it's highly unlikely.


Ornithological Vaccinations and Aviary Heuristics
by OVAH on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i disagree (2.00 / 2)

as someone who's been reading linfar's comments for several years, i am sure that this diary would've been written irregardless of russert's hillary hatred.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i disagree (none / 0)

"irregardless" is not a word.  "Regardless" or "irrespective" would be fine.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ok grammar police (2.00 / 3)

GMAFB.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:54:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ok grammar police (2.00 / 1)

I could give you break, but wouldn't you rather have a Kit-Kat Bar?

:)


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no (2.00 / 1)

i prefer snickers.  ;^)


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: w.t.f. (none / 0)

The fact that Russert (RIP) showed bias against Hilalry, a Dem, isn't offensive to you?  


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: w.t.f. (none / 0)

Denny, we were waiting for you to join in this bloodbath.

Well your chance at revenge is over in this diary as it seems to be dead.

But since you are so thorough with your comments and responses, let me ask you to please point me to this fact you allude to?

I guess he was "biased" to be the reporter to announce Obama the Presumptive Nominee after the final contests.

Wow, he deserves to die for that.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: w.t.f. (none / 0)

You may not like denny, but please show me where he said Russert "deserved to die". Also, linfar never alluded to any desire or glee that Russert die.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 07:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: w.t.f. (none / 0)

Oh, thanks for that uncalled for troll rate, kevin.

Noted.


Ornithological Vaccinations and Aviary Heuristics
by OVAH on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Didn't you get the memo? (none / 0)

It's okay to attack Bill and Hillary Clinton.  

Duh!


Another Clintonista against John McCain
by psychodrew on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 07:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good stuff (1.80 / 5)

Maybe they'll give him a big enough tombstone that you can actually dance on top of it?  

You should send this right to his son and his father.  That would really show em.  


by Sun Dog on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:32:32 PM EST

What utter crap... (2.00 / 4)

his family is one thing, they are no doubt grieving and that is natural.  But, linfar is correct, Mr. Russert was not someone I admired or respected while he was alive there is no reason to go revisionist now that he is dead.  I am reminded of when J. Edgar Hoover died, my mother's first and most heartfelt reaction was "Thank God".  Not respectful in the least, but why should his memory be respected he didn't respect others when he was alive.
Sun Dog, why don't you tell us why you were a Tim Russert fan.  Tell us about what a great journalist he was.  Because if I did I would choke.
by tonedevil on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wasn't a big Russert fan (none / 0)

As a journalist he was better than many on teevee but that's not saying all that much.  

Is it just one or the other?  Revisionist oversimplifying of the man as a simple hero or completely dancing on his grave.  Because I thought this diary was crap it means I'm lionizing Tim Russert?  

Didn't mean to make you choke or anything.  


by Sun Dog on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your Tim Russert Voo Doo Doll worked (1.50 / 2)

Maybe you should move on to another propagandist?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:36:19 PM EST

Ignore this post! (none / 0)

Read Linfar's diaries and comments over the last 2 weeks.

This isn't her posting.

she would never write this as found at the end of the diary:
Enough time passed to say this in your last line:


Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :

   

And I still hate Hillary!

She was kicked off of Hillaryis44, this is probably one of their deadenders who thinks they are a McHacker.

I hope Linfar comes out and clears her name.

Also this isn't the first time someones account got hacked.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:40:34 PM EST

Re: Ignore this post! (2.00 / 6)

DemsLandslide, I was a journalist who loved the profession before I was a Hillary supporter or anything else. Tim Russert is responsible, in part, for getting us into Iraq. The Bush Cheney Whitehouse thought he was the most dependable for them in getting out their propaganda message. Read the article. Yes he was biased against Hill. Do not judge a whole article which is mostly about his Iraq bias and many others to assume this is all about Hillary.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:44:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore this post! (2.00 / 6)

Linfar, hillary was also responsible for getting us into the war, she voted for it. Does that mean you'll write a diary about that? I suggest we not go there again, but you're the one bringing up who is responsible and who isn't.


by venician on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:28:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ignore this post! (none / 0)

Then as a journalist, you in fact should be writing a fair and balanced account of his life and not just cherry pick. Although I did not agree with him most of the time, he did in fact grill the repugs also, and your diary should reflect that, that is of course only if you are still calling yourself a journalist. Learn from them don't become them.


by venician on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 03:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oooh... (2.00 / 5)

His funeral is today...so, you know, this probably isn't the time for this diary.

There are valid criticisms, for sure, but it could wait a week or so.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:42:35 PM EST

Re: Oooh... (2.00 / 3)

I have waited for over a week. I cannot believe on a so-called progressive blog shows  this sort of deference to Russert. Was anyone around here when MeetThe Press pushed the Iraq War down our throats???


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oooh... (1.50 / 2)

So why did Hillaryis44 kick you out?

Funny how you decried them a week ago and are now parroting their talking points.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shameless lies (1.37 / 8)

He dies Less than a week ago.

If you can link to one of your pieces critical of Mr Russert before he defiled your queen, I might think this isn't a repulsively opportunistic spite party.


by Is This Snark on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:58:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shameless lies (1.75 / 4)

Snark hit this RIGHT ON THE HEAD.

Its sad that on this site you can get away with intellectual dishonesty just in the name of hero worship.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shameless lies (1.80 / 5)

This site has been all about intellectual dishonesty in the name of hero worship for the last several months. This diary's just a continuation of that.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oooh... (2.00 / 1)

You're right, MTP/Russert did help push us into the Iraq debacle.  I was wtching then, and I didn't buy it.  Did you?  I disagreed, and sought information from other sources.

Frankly, I lost a certain measure of respect for those who did buy into it.  I lost much more for those who enabled it.  AUMF ring a bell?  


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 03:24:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oooh... (1.00 / 1)

And now as I watch his memorial service, i am even more discusted with you and your timing of this diary. A women is burying her husband today and a son is burying the only father he will ever have. And you couldn't even respect that fact for just one one day? With that you have shown your true colors and inability to have and show compassion.


by venician on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (1.87 / 8)

I am dead serious when I say that I think it would be absolutely frightening to live in your hate-filled shoes for a day.

Disagree with the man all you want... hell, hate him all you want... but there's a thing called tact and you obviously don't have a single bit of it.  


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:43:00 PM EST

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (2.00 / 1)

4,000 dead Americans and their parents and the 9/11 widows and the maimed and wounded from a war you profess to detest, would probably disagree with you. You might actually read the diary...Oh, I know, that's not your style


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (2.00 / 1)

I read your diary, you said you want to desecrate his grave site.

You still havent defended or promoted that idea further.

Just go edit it out, and you might have a tasteless diary, down from a vile and disgusting one.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (2.00 / 5)

Oh trust me, I've read plenty of your diaries, unfortunately.  I still remember the classic one that you penned that cited anti-Muslim sites like Creeping Sharia in order to attack Obama.  I also remember you vehemently denying writing it months later (after you were banned and then allowed back here) until I provided links to comments from that very diary.

Anyway, like I said before, there's a thing called tact.  Writing a diary like this on the day of his funeral shows none, but I'll be honest and say that I wouldn't have expected anything different from you.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:55:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your point is taken. Are you done? (2.00 / 6)

Russert believed what the government told him about Hussein, and overreacted to 9/11, much like the rest of the press and much of the public in general.

It would have been nice if you had perhaps waited until after his memorial service today to get your revenge over Russert treating Hillary Clinton as the clear Democratic frontrunner in 2007.

That is all.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:43:19 PM EST

Re: Your point is taken. Are you done? (none / 0)

Maybe the day of his memorial is exactly the right day to actually look at what his work has added up to? What on earth is the matter with people here? Russert led us into Iraq by accepting the Bush Cheney propaganda and peddling it to the American people for Years!!! He deserves to b e repudiated not enshrfiend as some sort of American hero.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Or maybe it's tactless and useless (2.00 / 4)

If you don't understand people's grief at this loss, then you perhaps do not understand human emotion very well.

Russert didn't "lead" us anywhere.  He failed in his media capacity to take the administration to task for its lies, but the vast majority of the American public, elected and otherwise, failed just the same.  

Hillary Clinton had more power to stop this, more power to lead, more power to crack open the deceit being woven around us and make the public aware of the consequences of this war, but she didn't do it either.  

If you want to go after Russert, you have to go after Hillary Clinton, too.  Are you willing to make that sacrifice?  If Hillary Clinton died, would you gloatingly expose every failure of her life, percieved or actual?

Tell me that you'd do that, and I'll know that you're not just a partisan (merely monstrous).


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Boooooooooo (1.81 / 11)

Poor taste.  Pissing on someone just because they were critical of your candidate is kindergarten politics.  

Russert held everyone's feet to the fire.  He was an equal-opportunity interrogator.  This piling-on has nothing to do with the war in Iraq.  Cherrypicking comments from a lifetime in journalism to smear the guy has everything to do with the fact that he didn't kiss your candidate's ass.

Enough with the sour grapes.  Grow up.


by spunkmeyer on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:44:19 PM EST

bull (2.00 / 3)

if he truly held everyone's feet to the fire, he would've challenged the lies that cheney, condi, and rumsfeld spewed on his show.

there were some that were obvious lies, esp. the one about the inspectors. i mean, anyone who'd been paying attention knew that was bullshit - journalists especially had access to the truth.  but the truth was never told.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bull (1.25 / 4)

Annatopia,  join me and Linfar in vandalizing his grave stone,  I hear they are actually putting it in a little later today, so we will have to wait.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:50:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

nope (2.00 / 3)

i agree the last line was tacky and i am not attempting to defend it. i am, however, defending linfar's right to compose a post detailing the bull russert pushed on his show.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jesus Christ (1.80 / 5)

Just keep repeating those sour grapes talking points.  They're coming from people who clearly didn't bother watching MTP over the past two decades.  I mean, why bother paying attention when you can cherry pick quotes to match your sour grapes?

This indignation has nothing to do with Iraq, and everything to do with hurt feelings over Hillary's loss.

Get over it.


by spunkmeyer on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

can you pass me what you're smoking? (2.00 / 4)

because it seems that there's some serious knee-jerk reactions going on here.  you seem to think that because i defended linfar's right to expose russert's complicity in pushing the iraq war, that i have never watched MTP or that i'm somehow parroting talking points from the fucktards at nocents?  GMAFB.  i have never even visited either of those wastes of space, and i don't appreciate you projecting whatever sore feelings you have towards those folks onto me. i am not now nor have i ever been on that team.

frankly, if you think this is all about hillary, fine, obviously your closed mind is not going to change.  and i understand that because in the past linfar has been inflammatory.  so i do "get" the reactions.  i just do not happen to agree, and because of that i'm getting ripped to shreds.

what a fucking ridiculous joke.  people who were not on team clinton during the primaries are perfectly capable of acknowledging russert's complicity in pushing the iraq war.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: can you pass me what you're smoking? (2.00 / 2)

Look, Anna, I appreciate your history of reasoned comments at MyDD.  But this isn't a question of me not "getting it."  This is a question of some fucktards cherrypicking comments from Russert's history to create a case that he was somehow a cheerleader for the Iraq war.  It's easy to do so, because Russert pushed everybody who sat across from him, meaning that it's easy to pull "devil's advocate" quotes and sell them as somehow indicative of what he actually believed.

It's easy - too easy - to flippantly suggest, as you do:

russert's complicity in pushing the iraq war.

But it just wasn't the case.  Anyone who watched MTP religiously during the runup to the war would know this.  And I think you'll be the first to admit that most of the smears that have been thrown at the man before he was even buried had more to do with sour grapes over the way Clinton supporters felt he treated her (myopically, of course, because he pushed Obama just as hard).

Watching the proceedings has made me sad for the state of the discourse around here.  And disappointed at the eagerness some so-called progressives have for trashing someone who just died.  It truly is a microcosm of the outrageous bloodlust going on over at those sites you've never been to.

MyDD should be better than them.


by spunkmeyer on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

spunk... (2.00 / 1)

i did watch MTP, and FTN, and many many other shows leading up to the war.  the only shows that were consistently critical or questioning of the administration's lies were moyers and donahue (before he was cancelled, of course).  sure, russert had his moments, but over and over and over he had those folks on his show and allowed them to lie (mostly) unchallenged.  believe me, i am not saying everything he did was bad.  what i'm saying is that someone of russert's influence and reach has a special responsibility to practise responsible journalism. i think he did in some cases, but in many more i really think he (and the rest of the MSM, mind you) failed us badly.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 4)

linfar cited so many examples of russert's shoddy journamalism that had nothing to do with hillary.  i for one was always pissed when he kept pushing that "saddam tossed the inspectors out" bullshit.  i mean come on, did we all forget the lies pushed by the media in the leadup to the war?  did we forget how russert and many others gave bush's lies a platform?

let's be honest here.  russert may have been a kind and generous family man, but he was a terrible journalist.  he helped sell this war and that's simply the truth.

and while you guys might find that posting this diary today is tacky (i do kinda agree - i would've waited a bit longer), the facts are indisputable.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:46:08 PM EST

Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 1)

Please defend the last line:


Of all the things one might put on his tombstone: Good father, devout Catholic, and loving son--  if one were to be honest and refer to his professional life-- one might add as someone did in a comment on a blog :

   

And I still hate Hillary!

I assume you agree right?

Or will you excuse it by saying the rest of the article is true so we need to ignore that line for "unity".

I guess Hillaryis44 rose from the grave.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 4)

He hated the clintons,demslandslide--among his many, many biases and disrtfrotions. Read the whole article. Iraq. Iraq. Iraq. If you are anything more than an Obaam fan, if you truly oppose the war and the way we got into it, then you cannot possibly defend Russert. Clinton was only one of his astounding and varied biases--all sold as truth.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 6)

Clinton voted for the war.  How is that OK while Russert's crappy journalism isn't?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because linfar supports Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 2)

That's why her name was referenced more than Russert's in a diary allegedly about his failures regarding Iraq.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:04:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ridiculous comment (2.00 / 4)

stop projecting.  i am not defending that last line and i said as much upthread.  and i am not now nor was i ever on team clinton, so don't you fucking DARE equate me with the racist fucktards at H44/nocents.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 4)

Thank you annatopia. thank you. What is the matter with people on this website? Are memories so short? Does no one really care about how we got into Iraq. Tell, me when exactly is the right time to look at his record. When it is not news anymore? People have had a week to memorialize him. If this information does not get out there, no one will remember the propaganda role that he in fact played.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:52:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you're welcome (2.00 / 4)

you and i have been on opposite sides of the primary battle, but we have "known" each other on this site for years.  of course i'm going to defend your right to post this, even if i don't agree with the timing.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're welcome (none / 0)

Thanks annatopia. As for timing--when is the right time to debunk the mythology being put forward by a dishonest press about a propagandist who profited from his lies and distortions?


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:27:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

honestly (2.00 / 2)

i don't have an answer for that.

frankly, since he died i've been thinking about this.

by all accounts from friends and co-workers, he was a kind man with a huge heart.  that may indeed be true. but it's also true that he failed us during the leadup to the war (yes, the rest of the MSM failed us as well).

i refrained from commenting on any russert diary in the past week because i was uncomfortable raising the exact points you made in this diary.  on that front, you have more courage than i do.

but really, i just do not know when it would be appropriate to critique his journalistic record.

i am trying to think of a similar situation, and the only ones i can come up with are nixon and reagan.  when they died, they were canonised by the right (and again, by many in the FAIL media), but you read posts all over the lefty blogs screaming against whitewashing their legacies. i guess i am puzzled by the reaction to your diary because you're basically calling bullshit on the canonisation, just as the lefty blogs called bullshit on reagan's canonisation.

and yea, i know there's a huge difference between journalists and politicians, but those are the only other two situations i can think of that are even remotely similar.

if we didn't wait for reagan's body to get cold before discussing his myriad failures, well, is it really that tacky to do the same to russert?

i dunno.  i honestly don't know.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 6)

The guy is dead.  He won't be pushing anymore bullshit onto the public.  This diary is in poor taste and is unnecessary.  Linfar could have written a diary about the living journalists who were just as bad as Russert, but he/she chose to bad mouth a man on the day of his memorial service.  That is a low class thing to do.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is NOT just about hillary, folks (2.00 / 1)

No. I have been sickened by the pandering and the ignorant extolling of his virtues on this, a supposed liberal and progressive blog. Russert sold the American public Bush Cheney propaganda week after week after week for years. First you couldn't talk about this because he just died, then there was an approprairte time to mourn. I have given it a week. There are a lot of dead Americans becuse of this guy--and so it is wrong to say ooooh, what a loss. How tragic. And on and on. without acknowledging the truth. You have lost perspective, my friend


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Perspective? (2.00 / 2)

How is shitting all over Tim Russert's career going to change anything?  He wasn't the cause of the problem he was only a symptom of it, and as much as he pissed me off he seemed like a decent man who truly loved his family, friends, co-workers and his job.  He can be praised for those things without condoning his failures.  

I think it may be you who needs some perspective on this.  Russert was only one man.  He made the same mistakes that hundreds of other reports made.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perspective? (2.00 / 1)

blue, you seem to forget that I wrote this as a journalist. I love my profession. And I believe there is a special circle in hell for all the media pundits who led us into this war. Russert was Chief among them. And he profited from his pandering to Bush-Cheney. Look at the outgpouring of sympathy at his death? I certanly did not wish he would die, but I'll be damned if I will rush to euologize him inaccurately and thereby give a whitewash to the role he played. The media sold us this war.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:25:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perspective? (2.00 / 2)

The media may have sold us this war, but our congress bought it without checking under the hood.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:30:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Perspective? (2.00 / 3)

You seem to forget that most of us aren't journalists.  As a result, it is hard for us to understand why you are singling out Tim Russert for his poor reporting on the day of his memorial service.  The media as a whole sold us this war.  The parts played by Charlie Gibson, Katie Couric, Dan Rather & Bubba the Love Sponge deserve just as much criticism as Russert's part.  

Your profession failed us.  You are assigning too much blame to Tim Russert.    


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I haven't had a byline in 12 years... (2.00 / 3)

...and I'm ten times the journalist you are, if this is your idea of journalism.

Real journalists don't let their spite control their story.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (2.00 / 5)

If it was WJC who died, I would hope we wouldn't demean his legacy by bringing up Monica, NAFTA and losing the congress.  Instead I would hope we would focus on his accomplishments during his 8 years as POTUS and after...

Just doesn't seem "right" or "moral" to insult a dead man...Should have done it when he was alive, IMO.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:54:54 PM EST

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (none / 0)

Iraq seems to me a little bit more serious than Monica. I mean, c'mon, do you in fact oppose the war?? Do you regret the 4,000 Americans who have  lost their livesw there? Because Russert helpled put theim in their graves. And that is a fact. Not opinion.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (none / 0)

You'd sound a lot more sincere if you acknowledged the hundreds of thousand (closer to a million, in truth) Iraqi deaths instead of endlessly waving the banner of American casualties.

Just a thought.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Propagandist Is Dead, Long Live Propaganda (none / 0)

Firewall, I think this is accurate. I guess I believe, sadly, that most Americans care  more about American deaths. But I am glad you raise this point. Our war has killed way,way more than our 4,000. It is a national disgrace beyond the niceties of some propaganda flack dying  unepectedly.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Russert helped 4000 to their graves... (none / 0)

...then Hillary Clinton did even more.

Can't you see how this is blinding you?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And Tom Daschle did even more? (2.00 / 1)

After all, he was Majority Leader in 2002. He not only voted for AUMF, but he also scheduled that vote when he didn't have to. But will I blame Daschle for the war? NO.

So why are you still blaming Hillary? They got crappy intelligence. Maybe they're not blameless, but they're also not on the same level as Bush lying us into war and media pundits like Russert selling Bush's lies.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Tom Daschle did even more? (2.00 / 1)

Anything that even mentions  Hillary inflames passions. Year in and year out Russert worked in behalf of going to war with Iraq-- that is what is most telling and despicable.


by linfar on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Tom Daschle did even more? (2.00 / 4)

I blame all who voted to authorize the use of force, they are ultimately responsible for this war.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

agreed (none / 0)

especially when the information to vote against the war was clearly out in the public domain.  remember bob graham, anyone?  he called the war right from the start and urged his fellow dems to vote against it because of the intelligence.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not, you goof. (2.00 / 1)

I'm saying that there's a lot of blame to go around, and that to suddenly find the desire and drive to call one person out on it on the day of his funeral while downplaying the same responsibility on other people is deplorable and sad.

I DON'T blame Clinton for Iraq; I'm over it.  linfar should get over Russert, too.  Bush lied his way into this war; very few stood against it at the time.  Very few believed that our government would stoop so low.

How easily we forget that America used to be believed to be one of the good guys.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 02:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And Tom Daschle did even more? (none / 0)

A senator who actually authorizes the war deserves a thousand times more blame than some pundit who sells it to the public.  And btw Hillary in addition to authorizing it, and voting against the Levin Ammendment (thus authorizing Bush to ignore the UN) also sold it to the public and the media when she stood on the senate floor talking about WMDs, and asserting that Sadam had links to Al Queda. Those comments along with her votes are what gave the war bipartisan legitimacy.  Pundits did not have access to classified intelligence. Hillary was a member of congress and just spent 8 years in the white house so she should have