Another post on natural (?) disasters.

I was trying to post a comment to an earlier diary and cannot seem to make it happen. I wonder if I did something funky because even one word comments failed to post. I keep getting that my comment must be 50 characters or less. Whatever, I am not that fond of computers. I am much more of a pen and paper kind of person, but I am sure I will figure out how to make this work eventually.

Anyway I did want to respond to the one comment that I got. Yes of course rivers flood naturally. However, how many 500 year floods have we seen in the past ten+ years. A lot in the midwest. Just as fires naturally occur in nature. I would say duh, but that might be rude. However, the kinds of fires we have been seeing are not normal. Furthermore, I am fairly certain that the 50+ inches of snow we got up here in the head waters of the Mississippi may have something to do with the floods that are now occurring. That is 50+ inches of snow in just three separate snowstorms in April. This is very odd. Add to that some of the most torrential rainfalls we've seen in a long time and I am not surprised we are experiencing abnormal flooding down river.

The Native people who populated this area, long before my ancestors ever came here, knew better than to live by the river in the spring goes without saying. Again, perhaps a big duh is order. However, add to this the fact that we have had several really freaky tornadoes in my area in the last week. We do not normally get tornadoes like this in northern Minnesota. And the number of tornadoes all around the midwest seem to be at record level every year for the last few years. My point is that I think everyone is experiencing freaky weather, unusual changes in nature, and we really are not talking about it. I read somewhere that the person who owns the Weather Channel thinks Global Climate Change is a hoax. This makes sense as I used to like the Weather Channel, but find it terribly uniforming these days.

Just out of curiousity, did I do something to screw up the other diary so comments (mine at least) cannot be posted?

Holli



Display:


Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (2.00 / 1)

Ok this one seems to allow me to make a comment. I would love to know what I did wrong before.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:14:48 AM EST

And the rainstorms that have deluged MN (none / 0)

and the upper Midwest played a huge role too.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:24:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And the rainstorms that have deluged MN (none / 0)

Yeah, I heard that Indiana got 11 inches of rain in one day. That is unreal. I'm not sure if that is causing the flooding in Iowa and further down the Mississippi, but 11 inches? Holy shit.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:41:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

The comment you were not able to post- did it say "subject too long (too many characters)"?
That means the text in the subject box of your post, just above the comment box.
The character limit in the subject box is 50.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 07:10:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

Thanks. I don't understand why it would make it impossible for me to post a comment, but I will play around with editing the title etc later


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 12:32:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have had that happen before, too. (none / 0)

Only in certain diaries, for no apparent reason.  They weren't locked.  I wrote long Tolstoy-ish posts only to post them and see them disappear without a sound.  Repeating the post, even a test comment, didn't work.  And yet other people continued to comment just fine, and I could comment in other diaries.

It's a rare, occasional glitch in the system, and I wouldn't take it personally.


by Dumbo on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 07:32:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have had that happen before, too. (none / 0)

I just always figure it's the bad machine that I don't like. The computer that is, heh. I know I am a dinosaur and am trying to get over it. I just really prefer pen and paper.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 12:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

Well, I just posted a comment on the other blog...so I don't think there is a problem.
Things are looking pretty bad too in Missouri.  I'm going to do all I can to help (pretty much labor since I have no money to spare).  I know that the Red Cross is close to having no money because they are helping feed volunteers and providing shelter.  One town that is in trouble had their two dump trucks break down today so they couldn't get sand to the site.
Education is the process of shedding one's prejudices.
by Luma on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:21:42 AM EST

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

Yeah and I was able to respond to your comment. Weird. BTW, thanks for the comment and your hard work. Sandbagging is rough work.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

Yeah, we were lucky (sort of) in Grand Forks. We had a tremendous response from FEMA, the Red Cross and other helping agencies. Of course, this was the Clinton FEMA, and these poor folks now have the Bush FEMA. Unless you have gone through something like this, it is very difficult to understand that when your entire city is evacuated, there is really no place to go. And getting back into what is left of your home is when the real tragedy starts. I was watching the news footage where people were starting to empty out their homes. That was probably the hardest thing to watch, because so little is salvageble. Needless to say, it really sucks.

The one really positive thing is our community really did pull together and I hope that this happens now.

BTW has anyone ever gotten the message that their post is too long (50 character max)? When this shows up I cannot post anything.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:37:17 AM EST

That refers to the comment title (none / 0)

being too long, just put more of the thought into the comment section and you'll be fine.

It is good to see another MN person on the blog I am repping Minneapolis and Western MN here.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:38:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

Ok, that makes sense. Thanks. Oh and yes it is wonderful to see a couple of other MN people here. I guess I am repping northern MN. Although I may not be quite representative of this area. I picked a very conservative area to live. I am not quite in the Range, but close enough to be kind of jealous. LOL, someday I hope to get further over to the Northeast angle.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:52:34 AM EST

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

In regards to your rude comments....it is simplistic. This isn't rocket science.

Rivers flood, otherwise there would be no farmland. The earth is a continuous cycle of replenishment and rebirth. People who choose to live on a flood plain know the risks involved. This isn't a phenomenon which was unexpected like a tornado.

Doing man made things to control the flow of water exacerbates the problem. I saw a report of how a man made lake in Wisconsin dried up. Basically the water went over a highway and it drained itself contributing to the flooding. I saw homes falling into a lake as the water rushed by it taking the soil right along with it. I wonder if it was the same lake. Building a home on a levy does not seem smart. Now those people have no land and no house.

We saw the same thing in New Orleans after Katrina. Man contributed to the devastation by building communities on land which would have offered a natural barrier to the flooding and tried to control the flow of water with a man made barrier. These are disasters which can be avoided or least reduced in devastation.

It may sound cold, but it is not like people don't know these things. City planners, builders, insurance companies, homeowners, local, state, and federal governments all know it.

Yes it is wonderful to lend a helping hand to communities and save lives and property. At what point will the federal government stop funding disasters and the rebuilding and tell people to get out of the flood plain. The farmland is one thing, but to keep rebuilding disaster-prone communities is foolhardy.

What I find naive is to say this is related to global warming. It's Spring. Spring tends to be a period where some of the most volatile weather occurs. If the area was in a drought and the rivers and lakes were drying up a reasonable person may conclude global warming could be the cause.

There is a weather system stalled over the area. The southern plains states experienced a similar weather system in May and June last year. Some places experienced as much as 45 days of rain in varying amounts in a two month period.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 03:42:23 AM EST

Chicago Trib 6/18/2008 (none / 0)

<Wisconsin officials said they had no idea Tuesday how they might stanch the flow of water still pouring from what had been Lake Delton, and they weren't even sure precisely how the giant leak started.</p>

But they agreed that something must be done quickly to help the tourism industry that is built around the Wisconsin Dells' popular lake. Some have written off the idea of restoring the lake by summer's end.

"It's hard to describe the force of water when it wants to move in one direction," Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle said. "It isn't that it broke through a dam. It pushed aside about 250 yards of earth, maybe 15 feet deep and 50 yards across. It pushed the edge of the lake until it fell into the Wisconsin River."

Civil engineering experts and geologists blame prodigious downpours that in recent weeks soaked and softened the low point between Lake Delton and the river.

A spillway and dam couldn't keep pace with the lake's rising waters, which cut a yellow gash in the ancient, erosion-prone sandstone that ran straight to the river. And then the lake went down the drain.

Dams and spillways are designed to be overtopped, said Northwestern University civil engineering professor Charles Dowding. But when the spillway into the Wisconsin River couldn't accommodate the lake's overflow, the water found another way out 400 yards north.

A few things could have happened next.

The water could have flowed over County Highway A and eroded the embankment on the other side, Dowding said. It may have widened an opening at a drainage culvert. It may have pressed down on groundwater and forced it through the softened earth. "Possibly, all three," he said.

The result reminded University of Wisconsin-Madison sedimentary geologist Shanan Peters of a glacial lake draining, which is exactly what exposed the Dells millenniums ago. A finger of water found its way through loose soil and the soft sandstone, and then a torrent followed it.

Civil and military engineers on Tuesday began trying to figure out how to repair the breach, with discussion centering on a temporary fix followed by a long-term solution.

"It's too early to tell, but we are committed to getting the lake back," Doyle said.

But even after the damage is repaired, it will take several weeks for Lake Delton to refill naturally. When the man-made lake was drained and dredged in the late 1980s, it took weeks before the lake was restored enough to allow fish to be restocked. That's why some believe there will be no lake to enjoy this summer.

Tuesday's efforts to deal with the drained lake involved engineers from the Wisconsin Army National Guard and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, plus a smattering of experts and officials from state agencies as varied as the Department of National Resources and Department of Transportation.

Nor was their work confined to the bizarre crater that once had been Lake Delton.

In the state Emergency Operation Center, a computerized event log compiled eyewitness accounts from county officials, state troopers and DNR workers reporting an ever-growing list of dams straining, seeping and overspilling in the southern half of Wisconsin. Engineers assessed damage across 30 counties, prompting officials to demand precision when asked about their efforts Tuesday.

"Which damage area?" Lt. Col. Tim Donovan of the Wisconsin National Guard asked. "We have a lot of them today."

jjanega@tribune.com>


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 11:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

In othr words, this happened to a natural lake, as all of lakes in the Dells are natural lakes.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 11:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

Sorry, I am wrong again, Lake Delton is a man made lake, I misread the article.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 12:39:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

But I actually do find this event much unusual than the current flooding in Iowa. I'm not sure why. I am not used to thinking of the lakes up in MN and WI as man made, but now realize that many of the lakes in the area where I live are man made.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 12:48:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another post on natural (?) disasters. (none / 0)

You know that was rude and I apologize. I guess in a way I agree with you, but thought that was self evident in the diary when I tried to preface my comments, with words from some of the smartest people I know, Native Americans. They knew not to live near the river in the spring and the thought white people were crazy for building their cities by the river.

That said, I also think that your comments make the point I was trying to make. You call it Global Warming. That is a complete misnomer. It is really called Global Climate Change for a reason. I'll even give you that (just for arguments sake) these floods are not caused by GCC, but can you deny something is happening to the earth? I do understand that the earth has been around for a very long time and events far worse than we are experiencing have occurred time and time again. I enjoy reading about these thing, but am no expert. However, I think that the consensus is now that what is occurring now is unprecedented as it has been caused by human activity. Now I live on a lake in the middle of the woods and I take very close notice of the weather. It is changing and has been for a while. I wish I could find a site that is not bullshit on either side of the argument. Finally, I would be happy to talk to you again if you have anything further to say.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 12:55:43 PM EST


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