Updated: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in MN (Obama is still a Rock-Star)

Okay so SUSA (the 'gold' standard of polling) released some polls done in MN.  I took a study break to take a gander at the cross tabs and I say that SUSA is ignorant about what is going on in MN.  I found it funny that KSTP was the main sponsor of this poll as all MN people know that they have a republican bias and the polls show something weird going on.

The results were For the Presidental Race: Obama 47-McCain 46.
For the Senate Race: Coleman 52-Franken 40.
The team at MNpublius agrees that these polls don't pass the smell test President and Senate

Here are the linkys:
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollRepo rt.aspx?g=b9f93545-a19e-4e8d-909c-59b605 0c0d5e (President poll which makes no sense)
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollPrin t.aspx?g=c358090e-4679-4eeb-b99f-fd8654b c08be&d=0
(Senate poll which the cross tabs look down right ugly)

So I have to do my best to swat down this piece of crap.  First off looking at the cross tabs for the Presidental Poll:

The age distribution of the vote is completely out of wack, I have some sort of a handle on the youth vote (18-34) and I can promise you that there is now way it is tied.  Obama will win the colleges 80-20 at a minimum.  Young people in MN are like young people in other states and we are going for Obama.  Also 65+ being only 16% of the vote, I don't think so SUSA, that result is pure crap.

Second the ideology breakdown isn't what I've seen for results by pollsters who know MN (Star Tribune).  The liberal number is too lo9w and the moderates are too high.

Third Partisan breakdown is off, we have over 38% DFLers here now and I can promise you that self IDed republicans are down below 30%.  The DFL won a budget battle this spring and will expand their majorities on a local level.

Fourth the geographical breakdown is mind boggling, so the Twin Cities area includes the 4th 5th 3rd and parts of the 2nd and 6th CD's still There is now way that McCain is within 5% of Obama with the 3 fourth and 5th making up over 75% of the sample.  The 4th and 5th will go for Obama by over 15% the third by over 8% now way McCain makes up that much ground in the redneck suburbs like Rogers or down south.  I find it hard to believe that the Western MN is going bigger for Obama than the NE.  Frankly if there was one area of the state McCain should win it would be the West part as it is really republican (I grew up there I know this).

The gender breakdown is plausible but it is likely that there will be a greater female vote (I think 52-48 for females), they don't give a racial breakdown but the Senate poll shows some goofiness going on.

So onto the Senate Poll:

First off Male voters will not outnumber female voters, this poll shows them doing that.  It won't happen.

Again the age breakdown is weird as 18-34 out number 65+ again even with an Obama surge in youth voters that isn't going down.

Third, the racial breakdowns are complete bunk, 50% of hispanics are undecided, no that is wrong.  Coleman getting nearly 40% of the AA vote, again who did they call to do this poll, Michael Steele?  The Other vote (a combination of Native Americans and Asian Americans (MN has a decent sized Hmong/Lao population) seems pretty close to being right.

Fourth party affliation looks screwed up as Independents out number republicans here.  Independents having 18% of the electorate is implausible here in MN.

The regional breakdown doesn't look horrendous except for the NE which is not going to vote for Coleman.  The democrats up their are long time democrats and a party traitor doesn't get much from them.  The only time in recent memory that a republican won that district was Rod Grams (a native son) in a republican landslide (1994) against a Weak candidate.

So SUSA doesn't know MN look to Ras or the Star Tribune instead for accurate polling of this state.  SUSA may be good elsewhere, but they don't know MN.

S.G.


Poll
Did SUSA come up with a clunker?
yes
no

Votes: 23
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


If this SUSA poll for President is (2.00 / 4)

close to right I will eat a shoe.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:20:34 PM EST

Re: If this SUSA poll for President is (2.00 / 1)

I hope you're right.  But be careful with shoe-eating promises; I believe Jerome Armstrong still owes all of us a video of him devouring his.

Wish I had the link to that promise.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh unless (none / 0)

the 'whitey' tape is real I am safe in this promise.  Since it isn't I am golden


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh unless (none / 0)

Wait, there's not really a tape of her saying Whitey?????  Are you calling Larry Johnson a liar??????  For realz??????

But Universal promised!!!1!!!1!!!


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If this SUSA poll for President is (none / 0)

Found it!

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2007/8/15/2 3715/1090/38#38


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There were very accurate (2.00 / 1)

the 2006 Minn. Senate race.

What I noticed was McCain leading among independents by 11 while Kerry won them according to the 2004 exit poll by 13.


by fladem on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reverse Coat Tail Affect (none / 0)

Franken is bringing down Obama in the numbers. Franken is such a toxic candidate he reminds moderate independents just how loony and left wing a Democrat can be. Franken is hurting Obama and this poll is proof of that.


by mikeofminnesota on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:27:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you! (none / 0)

I was wondering what was up with that poll, this makes more sense than the idea that Obama lost 10 points in a few days. Their last poll was seriously under the common numbers, too. But to say that he's actually polling far LOWER than he did in May is kinda nuts.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:21:54 PM EST

The are great in some states (none / 0)

but in MN they don't know what is going on or they are favoring their Sponsor which is a republican media out fit (Hubbard Broadcasting).


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The are great in some states (none / 0)

They don't do too well in GA, either. The only parts of it you can KINDA trust are the VP choices (which SUCKED in that poll).


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:36:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hopefully, SUSA's MN polls (none / 0)

are as accurate as their NC and IN polls in the primary.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:24:10 PM EST

From the looks of the internals (none / 0)

it looks like it is worse.  I know MN and the internals are just plain ugly.

I think they called specific zip codes to get the results they wanted... (Rogers must have been called a lot)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:30:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good god (2.00 / 1)

I'm looking at those internals and it's blowing my mind.  14% liberals?  Really?  I get that we're a largely rural state with moderate tendencies, but, christ, I have more liberals than that living within five miles of my apartment.

Nice catch, SG.  This one is a total dog.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:26:25 PM EST

Yeah (none / 0)

aren't they ugly.

I mean only 16% of voters being over 65+  MN has high voter turnout but we aren't an uber young state like Alaska.

SUSA is losin credibility with me for polling MN trust the Star Tribune they have a good track record and know the MN electorate.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:28:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in MN ( (none / 0)

SUSA

- World's greatest pollster.

I won't go head to head with SUSA.

The fear of god is in me.....


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:31:51 PM EST

I know my state (2.00 / 1)

and there cross-tabs/internals are ugly.  I know that the Star Tribune has been accurate in the past 4 cycles polling my state and that they know the electorate as they report on it every day.  In MN they are the gold standard, just like Seltzer is the gold standard in Iowa.

I wouldn't go head to head with them without back up like Star Tribune.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:39:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know my state (none / 0)

Well I don't doubt you know your state , but the last star tribune poll had Coleman by 7 , that was last month though and he has subsequently had troubles.

I am not trying to be a SUSA groupie but thats the most trustworthy pollster out there as far as I am concerned.

Granted they could be missing something in Minnesota , they have been wrong before.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/stat e/19057229.html?location_refer=Political ly%20Connected


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:44:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Coleman (none / 0)

Franken is coming out of a contentious primary and a slew of character asassinations; his numbers will get better.

Coleman is kinda a hypocrite; I don't see his numbers staying up there under concentrated attack linking him to Bush.  He's been as loyal a lapdog as they come.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Coleman (none / 0)

I don't disagree with you.

just trying to caution against doubting SUSA  .

They have been the best this cycle.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Coleman (none / 0)

No they weren't.  Not according to their own report card... They were up there but not tops... although to be fair, I believe they were tops of the big firms that put out TONS of polls, like Zogby, Rassmussen, Gallup, etc.  But NOT THE TOP BAR NONE!

Just saying.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know my state (none / 0)

Well they have 30-49 as 35% of the electorate which seems high... They have seniors as only 16% which seems low, and there is NO WAY Obama is tied on 18-29 year olds.  

Outlier.  Pure and simple.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in MN ( (none / 0)

World's greatest pollster is not really accurate... They are good, but not the best.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in (none / 0)

If SUSA wants to be credible they better come out and disown this poll.  They should chalk it up to repub bias.


by Spanky on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:32:47 PM EST

Their Senate poll is (none / 0)

all sorts of funny too.  the simple fact that males make up a majority of the electorate throws the whole validity into question with that one.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in MN ( (none / 0)

By the way the last Star Tribune Poll had Coleman ahead by 7 .

http://www.startribune.com/politics/stat e/19057229.html?location_refer=Political ly%20Connected

Franken has been having trouble.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:41:45 PM EST

As mentioned above (2.00 / 1)

Franken took awhile to lock up the nomination.  His numbers will get better.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't doubt that he is down (none / 0)

I'd guess around 5-7 right now.  I am commenting on the weirdness of the internals, Drac is a MNer too and can see that some of these just don't make any sense.

Like Drac and I know that there are more than 16% liberals here in MN, between Uptown, South Minneapolis, the River district and The U (all branches) there is more than 20% liberals.

Stuff like that makes a poll seem funny, but I agree that Franken is down and needs to step up.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in MN ( (none / 0)

According to this poll, McCain is winning the Twin Cities area by 5%, which was all I needed to see to tell me this poll was pure crap.  Obviously this includes the more conservatively-voting suburbs, but  Minneapolis/St. Paul more than outweighs them.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:22:19 PM EST

Re: SUSA, KSTP and what is really going on in MN ( (none / 0)

hey, SG. good take down. might want to just put actual results of the poll at the top though.


by Todd Beeton on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:32:38 PM EST

My bad (none / 0)

I was on a study break and was pressed for time (like I am now, I'd add it).


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you have no data, hence many errors (none / 0)

you might be right, but next time provide some data to support what you're saying. it's pure crap that 65+ will be 16%?

Hmm, let's see. CNN's exit polls show that 60+ voters made up 19% in 2004. 16% for 65+ is thus not THAT extraordinary.

you believe that youth turnout will go up this year? fine, say so. but the 16% number is clearly not pure crap and there is a very simple way to find out. RESEARCH. here's the link to the MN exit poll: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/ results/states/MN/P/00/epolls.0.html


by LeftistAddiction on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:15:57 PM EST

Re: you have no data, hence many errors (none / 0)

Also, whether a subgroup makes up 15% or 20% is really within the margin of error (especially when it comes to subgroups) so as long as the errors aren't shockingly out of the ordinary they simply are part of a poll's random sampling. Nothing to suggest that this poll was that shockingly out of line. If anything, SUSA's polls have tended to show HUGE shifts towards registered Democrats in partisan breakdown. I think that's warranted cause there is certainly a shift in ID, but I'm sure the GOP is complaining that these polls are biased against them.


by LeftistAddiction on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In the Senate Race (none / 0)

The results from NE Minnesota (Duluth and the Iron Range) show Coleman winning by 18%, that is not going to happen, as I said the only time in recent history a Republican won NE MN (basically CD-08) was Rod Grams (a native son) against a weak candidate in a Republican year.  The NE is very democratic.  That result shows they got a bad sample from the NE at the very least.  Also the high rate of undecideds among hispanics (>50%) shows that sub group was faulty.  Also I have a hard time buying the Western MN numbers showing Al under 30% (I could buy mid 30's right now considering the beating he has gotten).  So many of the subgroups are faulty which throws the whole poll into question.

With the presidential poll some of the same type of problems arise like the youth vote being split I will eat a light bulb if that happens in the fall without an epic landslide by McCain.

These results are far out from traditional wisdom about the nation and about MN.  People with better political minds (over at MNpublius) come to the same conclusions.  Especially as they are so far off from Star Tribune (our local pollster who is usually close) and Rasmussen.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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